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TempestofChaos

Tempest's list for server survival

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So this was copied from the discord assuming people read forums.

 

So happy fun time!!! If we do not fix this shit, server will die next month, because nobody will play on it. FIRST OFF: Our ideas of balancing around our top players is ending. This is stupid for a number of reasons. It doesn't work, as evidenced by player levels, including our regulars.
No more "but we earned VA, no nerfbats", because guess what. If this doesn't get fixed, you don't get a server next month anyways. Time to fix things.


5 Blaring issues to be addressed.
1. Gear levels
2. Misison Rewards
3. UAV's getting nerfed, re-introduce the lockout timer.
4. REMOVE MALDEN FARMING (money nerfbat)(edited)
5. All of this needs minimal new coding, only minor adjustments

 

So my main goals for this:
1. Make it easier on day 1 players to join.
2. Make it so gear crates are consistent with loot types like before
3. Reduce power gap between max gear level and minimum.
4. Overall: make the game more casual, less grinding.
 

None of this garbage of "it is too late", because if people are still farming money on Malden, they think there is a reason to farm.

 

So let's repeat this. No comments of "but they just need to get gud" is acceptable. Server has 15-20 max lately, time to fix shit. They obviously do not like something. Let's try to find easy to change solutions first. Let's have fun with ideas, and get creative. Because face it. We cannot POSSIBLY ruin it further.

 

So before we go any further, let's be completely clear.  Our regulars are not always the best.  Some are downright poor at the game, some only play every so often, some are amazing at the game, some  are members, some are not.  We are not balancing around the top 1% of players here.  We are looking at how can we get new players to not go "this is shit" and leave.  Because here is why:  The attitude of "they suck and they wouldn't even like it here" is bullshit.  We are at an average of 10-25 people on MAX.  That isn't good enough for a server that not only 3 months ago I had to wait to get on. 

 

Sure Arma is cyclical and dying, but if a server from CodeFourGaming can pull 30 people to play wasteland with only pistols to start with, we can get 45 on an average day.  I love our community, we can do this. 

 

Ultimate goal:  We need to get to the point that people figure that it would be awesome to be an member/admin here.  That's when we know we have made it. 

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THIS IS JUST A LIST OF IDEAS, OTHERS ARE APPRECIATED.

 

 

First thing's first, we need to remove spammy bullshit that is hard to counter.  Drones used to have a timeout so they couldn't be spammed.  An update a few months ago broke it.  Drones are being spammed constantly on Malden.  That drone timer needs to be re-introduced.  The ceiling height for them needs to be reduced again, because it is higher on Malden than Stratis.  That ceiling needs to be 1500m-1900m to allow lockons from AA.
 
 
Second idea of the day.  Number of ideas to do this.  Face it, VA's getting nerfed with this idea.  Possibly make it cheaper with prestige levels or gear levels, or remove the bank account wipe rule.
Other ideas:
1. Change starting gun to a MX 6.5mm or katiba, then work your way up the gear levels with attachments instead of better guns.  Have GL 6-7 unlock PCML, GL8 unlocks RPG-42/MAAWS
2. Change the gear levels to 1m per level up to GL 5, then 3m each to GL 10.  Face it, a MX is not that bad and everyone having it isn't terrible
3.  VA gets a nerfbat to guns higher than 7.62mm.  This forces everyone to go to gun stores no matter what. No more being able to snipe at 1km upon spawn.  (VA needs a nerf regardless)
As said, this is not optimal, but our VA members do NOT make the server, our regulars/new players do.  We need to balance around them.  We were fools for trying to balance in favor of VA holders.
 
Third: Gear Crates
If we are to nerf farming in Malden, which I KNOW most admins are disgusted with, passive income in malden is cut in half.  Everything gets half the money.  To counter that, the capture timers get turned to 2-3 minutes instead of 4-5, which helps balance that out.
 
To counter the nerf to money generation, it was a mistake to make crates random in hindsight.  Thermals need to make a return to crates.  One thermal per 1-10 crates is reasonable.  They need a 10-15% spawn rate.  These are our shiny reward buttons.  
Furthermore, crates need to match their gun type.  We often get a Navid with no ammo!  Or navid ammo with no navid.  This cannot last.  This should be an easy change, because it just means reverting back to older changes with crates.  Good news, the scripts SHOULD still be there.  It was removed because of farmers on Malden.  If this becomes a problem, we adjust prices on items. But that is a problem for another day.  If people have too much money, that is the LEAST of our problems right now.  
Now, I know we removed those crates for a reason, but let's test the waters with a return to how it was.  Let's face it, more population is more important than in game money, right now. 
 

Let's address the big idea in the room:
Why would we balance for noobs?  Because those noobs run this server.  No, like seriously.  This doesn't mean we have to make it hugs and rainbows, but let's toss them a bone.  I don't mean throw them a Navid.  But let's reduce the power gap a little bit.  Even if only 30-40 have VA and only 5-6 are still active, being able to snipe at 1km upon spawn is and has contributed to this.
So to counter this, making gear levels easier to obtain is not a bad idea. 
Edited by TempestofChaos

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As much as I appreciate Shine's work on Malden, it needs to go if the bills keep getting paid. If malden players were to be playing on Straits at peak hours we'd be pulling 30-40 players on Stratis as is as there is usually 18-20 people on both servers, and if server population is low on both servers money farming just cant be fixed. There's no way to stop 5 people from all getting on blufor at 2am and making 10 mil in a night.

But above all everyone needs to be on board. Nothing gets changed without their approval of Consuls and Owners and nothing gets fixed correctly without Members and Arma Admins participating and giving feedback as well as actively getting the feedback from guests and other players.

Edited by Praetorian

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The other thing we need to look at is how are new people finding us.

Is it purely the amount of active players at peak times? Do we have some kind of channel that is generating new players interest in the server? Examples: streams, google search, youtube?

Is there a way to get Ad Revenue and is it a viable option?

 

VA Loadouts for ALL:

I know that the VA Banned Items List/Script was difficult to create, but it is extremely powerful and with some tweaking and maybe one or two additional scripts (to make editing GL easier/cleaner) it can do even more.

Gear Level Based VA Loadouts is what I am suggesting. The current script would need to check GL and GL would need to be set on items to balance game play.

This is something that can be done, but needs to be discussed for proper balancing. I'll be looking over the code today to get started on the changes this weekend.

 

I know I've said this before, but I will say it again anyway...

Gun Store Enemy markers are a campers dream and it is a royal pain in my ass when I run in, get geared up, and try to run out only to get sniped due to the map lighting up that an enemy is at the Gun Store while my map shows green cuz the enemy player is just outside of the marked zone. I've called it a night/day due to this issue too many times. I don't know if other people are having this issue, but it pisses me off to the point of quitting for the day. That means at least one less active player for the day.

Suggested change: Nerf or time delay since it should be assumed all stores are camped anyway.

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On 11/28/2018 at 3:41 PM, TempestofChaos said:


5 Blaring issues to be addressed.
1. Gear levels
2. Misison Rewards
3. UAV's getting nerfed, re-introduce the lockout timer.
4. REMOVE MALDEN FARMING (money nerfbat)(edited)
5. All of this needs minimal new coding, only minor adjustments

 

So my main goals for this:
1. Make it easier on day 1 players to join.
2. Make it so gear crates are consistent with loot types like before
3. Reduce power gap between max gear level and minimum.
4. Overall: make the game more casual, less grinding.
 

 

 

Gear Lvls - Im fine with whatever the changes will be as long as we get more players on the server

Mission Reward - The old mission loot crates should be brought back as sometimes its not worth the effort

UAV - I know i use alot of drones XD, but the lockout timer would be good

Malden - Well, depends on the Admins/Consul. If shutting Malden down and bring players to Stratis, worth the try i guess...

Lockout Timer for vehicles? - Just a thought, maybe a lockout timer before you can buy a vehicle from the same category?

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The main idea I have heard repeatedly is the lockout for UAV, and that the grind for gear level 10 is too long.  I'd think that a 50% price cost for GL 10 or a rework for prices is needed.

Reason being is that with this day and age, people are not acceptable with grinding it out.

Look at our popular games.  Most games like that nowadays are jumpin/jump out at whim.  Investment is sort of death.  The main thing that would counter that is friendship/group work.  Which is honestly why I stuck with Frac so long.  The arma 3 players are awesome.

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I don't think UAV's need to be nerfed anymore, everything else needs to be buffed. UAV's used to be cheaper, stronger and fly higher and abused beyond belief and rarely complained about until store prices got changed, jets nerfed etc. When people had the stock jets and titan AA's out of every other crate taking down UAV's wasn't as much of a big deal. In my opinion the whole server needs to be buffed. VA is fine where its at and gear levels don't need to be made anycheaper, We just need to lower store prices, bring back jets, buff crate loot again and have a few gear level sales to get people playing again. Pawnee's I think need to be set back to 60k though. On top of all this we nerfed the spawn loadouts for all gear levels including VA, but this just puts everyone who doesn't have a ton of money or VA at a disadvantage because store prices were raised, and crates nerfed etc. Our solution to balancing has been make the server harder and harder and harder but people just don't want to play that. We need to actually put some heavy thought into a balancing overhaul.

Edited by Praetorian

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i have played on another server where u spawn in a room with both gun and general store u could use your bank money to purchase a loadout before spawning it was a great system allowing everyone to be able to have good gear but u needed money in the bank to use it 

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Here's a problem we have.  We need to agree in the direction to go, and we are assuming it is only prices that are there.  I know I did the same, so don't just go on my assumptions.  Let's look at playstyles and see how we can influence those based on simple price values. 

For example, we do not want people spamming UAV's or tanks constantly, nor do we need plane spam constantly.  We need those to be cheap enough people will buy them, but enough that spamming won't happen.  This also assumes that those fun toys are all the reason, too.  We do not want someone ragequitting just because they lost a T-100 or an A-10. 

 

Praetorian, you advocating for buffing spawn drops like before, while saying that gear level costs don't need a reduction.  Both would have the desired result of increasing buying power.  I'll be honest, when I say I do not see the harm in either.  If we have sales for GL's, it boosts the population for a little bit, or people log on quickly for that to spam them out.  I am not sure how that worked in the past, that is up to owner recollection of how it worked.  My thoughts is instead of having VA viewed as an ultimate luxury, maybe make it the goal for every player, instead of the select few.  That could have a form in allowing prestige levels to keep their guns, potentially each reset, or removing the 100% bank reset, and simply costing$10m.  
 

This also begs the question, is are gear levels an issue at all.  I would think that grinding is something people don't like.  I don't think the problem is so much that the MX was weak, because the MK18 7.62mm rifle given before was also very weak compared to the Cyrus and Navid that VA users could get.  The point is the power gap between those two points.  How do you fight that distance?  I don't know if giving GL10 a DMS scope is the perfect solution (fully noting that the sniper class gets one). 


Vehicle prices up until tanks/jets seem largely okay, given what tanks can do.  Especially considering most APC's now have multiple reloads of rounds.  However, maybe a reduction of prices wouldn't be a bad idea.  Say back to old values of 85k/90k of a Varsuk, seeing of how weak the tank is, even with how powerful its cannon is.

However, I would argue for the values of helicopters and planes much more.  They seem far overpriced for it.  While they are a fun toy to use, and certainly very powerful, their values are quite inflated.  I get those are often money splurges, and actual recouping of value lost is difficult, however, it should be more feasible for quazzi newer players to get them as well.  Look at the average player's bank account, they are hovering around 500k-2million.  200k+ for a jet is a HUGE chunk for them.  Not saying that they need to even get one, but the option should be there.  Hell, even at my 17m, an A-10 is a huge chunk of change.  These are things that are powerful, yes, but so too is a tank.  Often I find that a well placed tank is much harder to hit for common players. 

After all, any fool can hit a plane with an AA launcher

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1 hour ago, [ARC] Spike said:

i have played on another server where u spawn in a room with both gun and general store u could use your bank money to purchase a loadout before spawning it was a great system allowing everyone to be able to have good gear but u needed money in the bank to use it 

I have thought about the idea of buying Virtual Arsenal with in game money for short periods of time, and using your in game menu like a gun store.  Problem is, I was not sure who would be willing to put that together.
I actually very much like the idea.  It solves every problem as for what I thought of.  It allows casual play, it allows players to combat high gear level or VA players, while still not having all the money themselves, and it reduces the grind of prestige level gear.

 

Ultimately, if short term VA purchases, for say....300k for 1-2 weeks was possible, it very well might work. 

 

As for the people saying that VA is not an issue here.  There is a problem where a gear level 10 player is infinitely outmatched by a VA player.  That is obvious, and that power gap is one that we have an interest in reducing.  Now, in the past we have dismissed that idea as whining on their part.  However, Virtual Arsenal was NEVER intended as something the normal player could get, so we cannot simply say "farm more, noob".  It was intended as a time sink for the most hardcore of our players.  Both valuable, and immensely powerful as a tool.

Let's make a second look.  People hate this idea, and it needs to be said again.  HAVING A SIX MAN GROUP PUBSTOMPING EVERYONE KILLS A SERVER.  People need some bloody judgement, as to whether they should rape an area for a solid 3-4 hours at a time.  This isn't so much an issue when there is 60 people on, but there is a problem when there is 24 on.  And time and time again, people wonder why that's a problem.  This here is it.  People leave. 

Ghostyy had that rule for a reason.  I was lax in enforcing it and simply kicking FRAC members for doing it, because I thought I was being a dick.  Now I can look back and realize how much of an impact that may have, depending how the group is behaving.  We can sit on our high perch of being good at Arma and say "get gud", but that isn't an okay solution to have the top 0.5% of players murdering them off the server, because there isn't enough 0.5% of players to populate it!

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On 11/29/2018 at 4:15 PM, PIX515E said:

Gear Level Based VA Loadouts is what I am suggesting. The current script would need to check GL and GL would need to be set on items to balance game play.

YES YES YES YES YES.

I LOVE IT. I have thought about it before, I was thinking "why can't a gear level 10 player be able to use a prior weapon, or even weapon equivalents."

If you unlock an MX, it is reasonable to allow them access to a Katiba, or Type 115 as well.  Each have benefits on their own. 

It is also worth exploring if class restrictions were unlocked.  Personally, I like the appeal of being an engineer and having a specific loadout including mines, but the sniper class gets a DMR rifle with a better scope.  I love the idea personally, but I feel like many people would rather be able to just use the DMR as an engineer.  Yes it is silly, and would remove the role of the sniper, but if people would like it much more like that, maybe consider it?

Maybe in the end it isn't a huge problem.  Just same as always, sniper gets a full ghillie, and everyone else gets to use their respective medkits and what not.  It certainly would make combat diver a playable option

Edited by TempestofChaos

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u could balance vehicles by restricting there fuel  allthough not a problem for me i love blowing up vehicles i know how powerful they can be with a good driver as for gear levels i have also played on another server that leveled up throughout the month with gear getting better every week and maybe the server could have nights where the good players join the lower level players and help them out 

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I have read through some of these ideas, most of them have already been implemented or tried and got rid of at one time or another. I dont know what is going to happen with Arma time will tell,but for now keep cranking out some ideas. I really havent read anything really good yet other than nerfing stuff that does not need to be nerfed. If you want my opinion some things might not seem fair but it is a game based on military style play,in other words war. War is not fair and not always easy so lets keep that in mind.

Also hearing about the FRAC guys that beat up on everyone makes me laugh,we a tough bunch of SOB but we can be beat you just need to figure out how. I will try to help anyone out with anything i can if you guys want to learn or play with the supposed bullie group that beats up on everyone maybe join there channel and ask them to join. 

 

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